much forwarder and very good-looking: the other is thin and looks younger
than he is.
SOCRATES: He whom you mean, Crito, is Euthydemus; and on my left hand
there was his brother Dionysodorus, who also took part in the conversation.
CRITO: Neither of them are known to me, Socrates; they are a new
importation of Sophists, as I should imagine. Of what country are they,
and what is their line of wisdom?
SOCRATES: As to their origin, I believe that they are natives of this part
of the world, and have migrated from Chios to Thurii; they were driven out
of Thurii, and have been living for many years past in these regions. As
to their wisdom, about which you ask, Crito, they are wonderful--
consummate! I never knew what the true pancratiast was before; they are
simply made up of fighting, not like the two Acarnanian brothers who fight
with their bodies only, but this pair of heroes, besides being perfect in
the use of their bodies, are invincible in every sort of warfare; for they
are capital at fighting in armour, and will teach the art to any one who
pays them; and also they are most skilful in legal warfare; they will plead
themselves and teach others to speak and to compose speeches which will
have an effect upon the courts. And this was only the beginning of their
wisdom, but they have at last carried out the pancratiastic art to the very
end, and have mastered the only mode of fighting which had been hitherto
neglected by them; and now no one dares even to stand up against them:
such is their skill in the war of words, that they can refute any
proposition whether true or false. Now I am thinking, Crito, of placing
myself in their hands; for they say that in a short time they can impart
their skill to any one.
CRITO: But, Socrates, are you not too old? there may be reason to fear
that.
SOCRATES: Certainly not, Crito; as I will prove to you, for I have the
consolation of knowing that they began this art of disputation which I
covet, quite, as I may say, in old age; last year, or the year before, they
had none of their new wisdom. I am only apprehensive that I may bring the
two strangers into disrepute, as I have done Connus the son of Metrobius,
the harp-player, who is still my music-master; for when the boys who go to
him see me going with them, they laugh at me and call him grandpapa's
master. Now I should not like the strangers to experience similar
treatment; the fear of ridicule may make them unwilling to receive me; and
therefore, Crito, I shall try and persuade some old men to accompany me to
them, as I persuaded them to go with me to Connus, and I hope that you will
make one: and perhaps we had better take your sons as a bait; they will
want to have them as pupils, and for the sake of them willing to receive
us.
CRITO: I see no objection, Socrates, if you like; but first I wish that
you would give me a description of their wisdom, that I may know beforehand
what we are going to learn.
SOCRATES: In less than no time you shall hear; for I cannot say that I did
not attend--I paid great attention to them, and I remember and will
endeavour to repeat the whole story. Providentially I was sitting alone in
the dressing-room of the Lyceum where you saw me, and was about to depart;
when I was getting up I recognized the familiar divine sign: so I sat down
again, and in a little while the two brothers Euthydemus and Dionysodorus
came in, and several others with them, whom I believe to be their
disciples, and they walked about in the covered court; they had not taken
more than two or three turns when Cleinias entered, who, as you truly say,
is very much improved: he was followed by a host of lovers, one of whom
was Ctesippus the Paeanian, a well-bred youth, but also having the wildness
of youth. Cleinias saw me from the entrance as I was sitting alone, and at
once came and sat down on the right hand of me, as you describe; and
Dionysodorus and Euthydemus, when they saw him, at first stopped and talked
with one another, now and then glancing at us, for I particularly watched
them; and then Euthydemus came and sat down by the youth, and the other by
me on the left hand; the rest anywhere. I saluted the brothers, whom I had
not seen for a long time; and then I said to Cleinias: Here are two wise
men, Euthydemus and Dionysodorus, Cleinias, wise not in a small but in a
large way of wisdom, for they know all about war,--all that a good general
ought to know about the array and command of an army, and the whole art of
fighting in armour: and they know about law too, and can teach a man how
to use the weapons of the courts when he is injured.
They heard me say this, but only despised me. I observed that they looked
at one another, and both of them laughed; and then Euthydemus said: Those,
Socrates, are matters which we no longer pursue seriously; to us they are
secondary occupations.
Indeed, I said, if such occupations are regarded by you as secondary, what
must the principal one be; tell me, I beseech you, what that noble study
is?
The teaching of virtue, Socrates, he replied, is our principal occupation;
and we believe that we can impart it better and quicker than any man.
My God! I said, and where did you learn that? I always thought, as I was
saying just now, that your chief accomplishment was the art of fighting in
armour; and I used to say as much of you, for I remember that you professed
this when you were here before. But now if you really have the other
knowledge, O forgive me: I address you as I would superior beings, and ask
you to pardon the impiety of my former expressions. But are you quite sure
about this, Dionysodorus and Euthydemus? the promise is so vast, that a
feeling of incredulity steals over me.
You may take our word, Socrates, for the fact.
Then I think you happier in having such a treasure than the great king is
in the possession of his kingdom. And please to tell me whether you intend
to exhibit your wisdom; or what will you do?
That is why we have come hither, Socrates; and our purpose is not only to
exhibit, but also to teach any one who likes to learn.
But I can promise you, I said, that every unvirtuous person will want to
learn. I shall be the first; and there is the youth Cleinias, and
Ctesippus: and here are several others, I said, pointing to the lovers of
Cleinias, who were beginning to gather round us. Now Ctesippus was sitting
at some distance from Cleinias; and when Euthydemus leaned forward in
talking with me, he was prevented from seeing Cleinias, who was between us;
and so, partly because he wanted to look at his love, and also because he
was interested, he jumped up and stood opposite to us: and all the other
admirers of Cleinias, as well as the disciples of Euthydemus and
Dionysodorus, followed his example. And these were the persons whom I
showed to Euthydemus, telling him that they were all eager to learn: to
which Ctesippus and all of them with one voice vehemently assented, and bid
him exhibit the power of his wisdom. Then I said: O Euthydemus and
Dionysodorus, I earnestly request you to do myself and the company the
favour to exhibit. There may be some trouble in giving the whole
exhibition; but tell me one thing,--can you make a good man of him only who
is already convinced that he ought to learn of you, or of him also who is
not convinced, either because he imagines that virtue is a thing which
cannot be taught at all, or that you are not the teachers of it? Has your
art power to persuade him, who is of the latter temper of mind, that virtue
can be taught; and that you are the men from whom he will best learn it?
Certainly, Socrates, said Dionysodorus; our art will do both.
And you and your brother, Dionysodorus, I said, of all men who are now
living are the most likely to stimulate him to philosophy and to the study
of virtue?
Yes, Socrates, I rather think that we are.
Then I wish that you would be so good as to defer the other part of the
exhibition, and only try to persuade the youth whom you see here that he
ought to be a philosopher and study virtue. Exhibit that, and you will
confer a great favour on me and on every one present; for the fact is I and
all of us are extremely anxious that he should become truly good. His name
is Cleinias, and he is the son of Axiochus, and grandson of the old
Alcibiades, cousin of the Alcibiades that now is. He is quite young, and
we are naturally afraid that some one may get the start of us, and turn his
mind in a wrong direction, and he may be ruined. Your visit, therefore, is
most happily timed; and I hope that you will make a trial of the young man,
and converse with him in our presence, if you have no objection.
These were pretty nearly the expressions which I used; and Euthydemus, in a
manly and at the same time encouraging tone, replied: There can be no
objection, Socrates, if the young man is only willing to answer questions.
He is quite accustomed to do so, I replied; for his friends often come and
ask him questions and argue with him; and therefore he is quite at home in
answering.
What followed, Crito, how can I rightly narrate? For not slight is the
task of rehearsing infinite wisdom, and therefore, like the poets, I ought
to commence my relation with an invocation to Memory and the Muses. Now
Euthydemus, if I remember rightly, began nearly as follows: O Cleinias,
are those who learn the wise or the ignorant?
The youth, overpowered by the question blushed, and in his perplexity
looked at me for help; and I, knowing that he was disconcerted, said: Take
courage, Cleinias, and answer like a man whichever you think; for my belief
is that you will derive the greatest benefit from their questions.
Whichever he answers, said Dionysodorus, leaning forward so as to catch my
ear, his face beaming with laughter, I prophesy that he will be refuted,
Socrates.
While he was speaking to me, Cleinias gave his answer: and therefore I had
no time to warn him of the predicament in which he was placed, and he
answered that those who learned were the wise.
Euthydemus proceeded: There are some whom you would call teachers, are
there not?
The boy assented.
And they are the teachers of those who learn--the grammar-master and the
lyre-master used to teach you and other boys; and you were the learners?
Yes.
And when you were learners you did not as yet know the things which you
were learning?
No, he said.
And were you wise then?
No, indeed, he said.
But if you were not wise you were unlearned?
Certainly.
You then, learning what you did not know, were unlearned when you were
learning?
The youth nodded assent.
Then the unlearned learn, and not the wise, Cleinias, as you imagine.
At these words the followers of Euthydemus, of whom I spoke, like a chorus
at the bidding of their director, laughed and cheered. Then, before the
youth had time to recover his breath, Dionysodorus cleverly took him in
hand, and said: Yes, Cleinias; and when the grammar-master dictated
anything to you, were they the wise boys or the unlearned who learned the
dictation?
The wise, replied Cleinias.
Then after all the wise are the learners and not the unlearned; and your
last answer to Euthydemus was wrong.
Then once more the admirers of the two heroes, in an ecstasy at their
wisdom, gave vent to another peal of laughter, while the rest of us were
silent and amazed. Euthydemus, observing this, determined to persevere
with the youth; and in order to heighten the effect went on asking another
similar question, which might be compared to the double turn of an expert
dancer. Do those, said he, who learn, learn what they know, or what they
do not know?
Again Dionysodorus whispered to me: That, Socrates, is just another of the
same sort.
Good heavens, I said; and your last question was so good!
Like all our other questions, Socrates, he replied--inevitable.
I see the reason, I said, why you are in such reputation among your
disciples.
Meanwhile Cleinias had answered Euthydemus that those who learned learn
what they do not know; and he put him through a series of questions the
same as before.
Do you not know letters?
He assented.
All letters?
Yes.
But when the teacher dictates to you, does he not dictate letters?
To this also he assented.
Then if you know all letters, he dictates that which you know?
This again was admitted by him.
Then, said the other, you do not learn that which he dictates; but he only
who does not know letters learns?
Nay, said Cleinias; but I do learn.
Then, said he, you learn what you know, if you know all the letters?
He admitted that.
Then, he said, you were wrong in your answer.
The word was hardly out of his mouth when Dionysodorus took up the
argument, like a ball which he caught, and had another throw at the youth.
Cleinias, he said, Euthydemus is deceiving you. For tell me now, is not
learning acquiring knowledge of that which one learns?
Cleinias assented.
And knowing is having knowledge at the time?
He agreed.
And not knowing is not having knowledge at the time?
He admitted that.
And are those who acquire those who have or have not a thing?
Those who have not.
And have you not admitted that those who do not know are of the number of
those who have not?
He nodded assent.
Then those who learn are of the class of those who acquire, and not of
those who have?
He agreed.
Then, Cleinias, he said, those who do not know learn, and not those who
know.
Euthydemus was proceeding to give the youth a third fall; but I knew that
he was in deep water, and therefore, as I wanted to give him a respite lest
he should be disheartened, I said to him consolingly: You must not be
surprised, Cleinias, at the singularity of their mode of speech: this I
say because you may not understand what the two strangers are doing with
you; they are only initiating you after the manner of the Corybantes in the
mysteries; and this answers to the enthronement, which, if you have ever
been initiated, is, as you will know, accompanied by dancing and sport; and
